LA Auto Show on HHO Gas

Kevin at HydrogenCarsNow.com continues to be a persistent source of information about hydrogen on demand with this latest report on his visit to the recent LA Auto show.

Check it out.

New HHO Games Article

Rare interview with Ozzy Freedom in this article. He's attending the HHO Games this week. 

Ozzy, I'd love to interview you too!

HHO Games

Ok, HHO lurkers, it's time again to point out that the HHO Games are coming, giving you the opportunity to get up close and personal with any HHO inventors out there among us.

Article about the event.

For more info on the event:

http://hhogames.com/

Mike Kerhli Interview

Fulesaver-MPG Inc.'s Mike Kerhli has been selling his EFIE devices for about a year now. He tinkered around with some plans from Eagle Research's George Wiseman and found that he had perfected the result enough to know he could save a lot of people some serious time so he decided to start a business doing just that.   How successful has he been so far?  He's sold over 3000 of these devices.  Until recently, he's been working 20hr days trying to keep up with demand. 

 What are these devices an why do you need one?  If you install an HHO kit on a car with an electronic fuel injection system, the air output through the engine becomes oxygen rich due to better combustion.  The Oxygen sensor on the output will flag this condition and cause the engine to send more gasoline into the engine.  What Mike's EFIE devices do is correct that condition allowing you to achieve the full benefits of an HHO Kit.   Mike is responsible for portions of the Water4Gas manual.  His information in this area is referenced by Ozzie Freedom and includes links to his site.  Kerhli recommends the manual as a big time saver to anyone wanting to start experimenting with this technology. 

Today, Mike is focused on adding to his product line. Next up for production is a wide band oxygen sensor or AFR sensor.  Certain new Japanese vehicles require this type of sensor to take advantage of an HHO Kit. It's interesting, this may explain why Mike Allen at Popular Mechanics received incorrect in his testing results. 

More on this topic later. 

EFIE Guy Mike Kerhli: Pulling Together HHO Proof

I had a fascinating conversation today with Mike Kerhli from Fuelsaver-MPG Inc., makers of EFIE (Electronic Fuel Injection Enhancers).  I'll be posting excerpts from that conversation on this website and on http://waterhybrids.blogspot.com.  

Mike sent me over a nice list of HHO research studies that have been done around the world.  Apparently, HHO has been studied scientifically a bit more often than the Mike Allen's of the world will find comfortable to tolerate. I'm going to be posting that research here for your perusal starting with this article:

Allgeier, T., Klenk, M., Landenfeld, T., Conte, E., Boulouchos, K., Czerwinski, J., “Advanced Emission and Fuel Economy Concept Using Combined Injection of Gasoline and Hydrogen in SI Engines,” Publication #2004-01-1270, March, 2004, Society of Automotive Engineers, Troy, MI. http://www.sae.org/technical/papers/2004-01-1270

• Abstract:  This paper presents data indicating that a hydrogen-enriched gasoline fuel mixture, in a conventional spark-ignited engine, produces improvements in engine efficiency and emissions.

---------------------------

I was able to actually track down one of the authors, Tilo Landenfeld, all the way in Germany.   In the coming days, I hope to be able to share more information about what I learn here. 

There are a number of SAE articles concerning HHO.

Dynojet Research and HHO Gas Devices

I'm always on the hunt for scientific proof that hho gas devices work as advertised.  What's needed here is a set of valid tests on a dynamometer.  These are hard to find but if you browse this site, you'll find lots of links to the various research performed on hho gas.  Hydrorunner is a company that makes hho gas kits and they've posted their dynamometer testing results on their website.  After clicking around a bit, I noticed that the maker of the Dynamometer was Dynojet Research.  Now here's a company that should know a thing or two about testing an HHO device on a dynamometer.  I'd love to interview someone at Dynojet about this:  if you're reading this, email me: watercarblog@gmail.com

HHO Vs Popular Mechanics

I've been following Popular Mechanics' Mike Allen lately as he writes about testing HHO devices and I've got to say I've been very disappointed so far.    At the time I spoke to him, he had a Water4Gas manual on his desk and when I asked him a question about an EFIE, he flipped to the section of the ebook and read a couple lines to show he was aware of the issue.  But he did not have one installed at the time.  

Here's the problem.  Mike Allen says that people who experience HHO gas saving improvements are imagining  the results based on a change in their driving habits.  They accelerate less quickly, lay off the gas more often and in general drive in a way that maximizes gas mileage.   Here's the problem I have with that.  People I've spoken to actually report having more torque with these devices and say that they drive faster not slower.  Allen looks sort of funny claiming he's tested these devices and that his pretest conclusions were right when in fact he ends his article by saying he's been testing them just like everyone else has been--flat road testing with an electronic gadget attached to the computer to detect mpg changes.   So based on that, he tells us these things don't work. Then he tells us only a dynamometer test would be conclusive.  Well, which is it?   It's not surprising, Allen insisted these units had no value even before he ran a test.   Then he ran a test and concluded they had no value but then ends his article with an admission that his was another of the invalid tests he criticized.  Do you see what I mean here?  

Here's what I think.  I think Mike Allen should use his pulpit to encourage real testing done by labs authorized by the EPA to run scientifically accepted tests to prove or disprove the efficacy of these devices to save gas.    Is it really going to kill his career to simply say, "hey, I adamantly detest the idea that these things actually work but I have to be honest and admit that  running the type of test required to once and for all establish the truth of HHO gas devices."  Is that going to kill you to say it, Mike?    The EPA has been running tests on these things for 30 years. Trust me, they know how to do the testing. We dont need Popular Mechanics to pretend they know how to conduct the test. 

Hello?  

In the meantime, thousands of people continue to report success with these HHO devices including the gentleman from whom Mike Allen purchased his kit.  

Keep in mind that the National Hydrogen Association has endorsed HHO gas devices which they refer to has hydrogen fuel injection systems. 

HydrogenCarsNow Article on Dept of Transportation Report

I've been writing about my personal opinion that the US Federal Government should take a more active role in testing HHO devices also known as hydrogen fuel injectors. The debates seem to go on and on because differences over test procedures, measurement, results interpretation, etc. The EPA has a standard set of test routines that should be utilized to settle these discussions.

In the meantime, the use of hydrogen fuel injection is receiving some attention from the Department of Transportation in a report released in 2007 and uncovered by Kevin at HydrogenCarsNow.com. I'll let him lay out the very interesting story.

Mike Allen's Follow Up HHO Testing

I left this comment on Mike Allen's Popular Mechanics comment section regarding his recently publicised testing:

I've spoken to Mike Allen on the phone about his work here on this topic and I dont think the readers are getting the complete story. First of all, Mike Allen has had a theory that this technology does not work. It's a reasonable theory for someone who has tested tons of these devices and never found one that works, but it is just a theory. People who read his article and conclude anything more than that the particular setup Mike tested does not work as advertised are going a bit too far based more on Mike's theory than his test results.
Read his test results. They say very clearly that only a dynamometer test will convince him that the technology works.
Now, Mike will say this technology is too ridiculous to test but since there's such an overwhelming public response, he has to do it. Great. But in doing so, he is perpetuating the very myth he is trying to dispell. What am I talking about?
Mike Allen is not the respected, appropriate authority to provide a scientific test of this technology. Sure, no disrespect because Mike is a smart guy and writes well but he's not what we need folks. By becoming an hho tinkerer himself, he only serves to fuel the idea that tinkering will finally land the big payoff.
To be clear, I do advocate hho tinkering but not if your Mike Allen, the journalist.
What persons like Mike Allen should really be advocating is a true scientific, federally recognized test of this technology. It trully surprises me that Mike Allen hasn't written about the fact that there are truly scientific processes that can be followed, that have been around for years which could settle this question once and for all.
What I advocate, as someone who has written about HHO for 2+yrs, is to have the EPA run their tests on a *series* of these devices. The problem is that these tests cost $14,000 and must be borne by the manufacturer. Sadly, no one has stepped up to subject themselves to these tests. But if the technology works, a real pot of gold lays on the other side of this rainbow.
If Popular Mechanics' intentions are true, then they could use their role to push for a non-standard EPA approach to this technology by having the federal government fund some of these tests. The angle to take could be via the Federal Trade Commission. Or it could be via a simple phone call to one's local House Representative or Senator.
What Mike Allen should really be doing is advocating a real scientific test that would be recognized by the US Federal government.
Would that really kill the so called myth of the water car? Maybe not but it would go a long way towards taming the debate.

Does anyone agree with me here or is everyone convinced that hundreds and thousands of non-authorities should continue to debate their test results?

CNN Money on Ronn Motor Company's H2GO

I've written before about Ronn Motor Company, makers of exotic cars that include HHO Gas systems built in. Apparently, the opportunity for hydrogen fuel injection systems as an aftermarket part was too good for RMC to pass up. They have announced and CNN Money has written about their plans to market and distribute a system which will be manufactured by a larger unnamed player in the space. This could quickly make Ronn Motor the industry leader in hydrogen fuel injection systems.

What's interesting about Ronn Motor is that they are a publicly traded company (Symbol RNNM) subjecting themselves to federal safety and emissions testing through NHTSA and EPA respectively.

Water4Gas Testimonial

In following the hho gas world, I get alot of emails from people at various stages of realization that Water4Gas technology works. Today, I got a note from Les Pollyea of State Street Motors in Hastings, MI. He's been in the automotive repair business for 30 years. When I spoke to him today on the phone, the first words of his mouth was, "I was a skeptic. And before we started this thing, we looked at it for 2 months trying to figure out if it was a scam or not a scam. So, finally we did it. And I'm telling you what, we were amazed!" Mr. Pollyea went on to explain that his whole approach to studying this was as a skeptic. He wants to prove it doesnt work. But so far his test results show it does. They are going to install it on 2 more vehicles now.

Just another testimonial from someone without a name, address or phone number, right? Wrong! Mr. Pollyea gave me permission to include his full contact information right here on the blog. That's right, a real person just like you who scratched their head for awhile wondering if they should buy a Water4Gas manual and give this thing a try. I'm sure too many people will call Les and he'll send me an email saying take this info down but for now, here is his exact email to me posted with his permission:

I own and operate STATE STREET MOTORS INC. in Hastings ,Mich. We have recently installed a Water4gas system on my 1997 Chevy Sububan 2500 4X4. Prior to installation the Last 3 fuel economy fuel ratings were avg. 13.2 to 13.4 mpg. after install the first mpg test was 18.2 mpg. we are going to continue testing to see if this was just a fluke or if this system really does have merit. We will mail you a continuing report as we progress.

LES POLLYEA

STATE STREET MOTORS INC..

1455 W. STATE ST.

HASTINGS,MICH 49058
269-948-2277

Here's more of my interview with Les:

Blogger: How long have you been working with cars?

LP: Oh God.....30yrs?

Blogger: So when you first looked at this, you thought it was a complete scam?

LP: Absolutely! Absolutely.

Blogger: Why did you keep looking into it? What pushed you over the edge to try it, if you thought it was a scam?

LP: $4/gallon for fuel and I think curiosity more than anything. That and by God, you know what, if it does work, then why not? I mean if this does work, just look what it would do for the nation.

Blogger: ...or SUV sales. People can't buy Ford or General Motors SUV's these days because of the price of gas.

LP: Exactly. That's it. I'm going to test this on a motorhome which currently gets 7mpg. We're going to test it on there.

Pollyea went on to ask if I hear that others are getting more power from these systems and I said yes, that's what I hear all the time. He said he's getting a very noticeable amount of extra horsepower.

So there you go.

Mike Allen at Popular Mechanics

Popular Mechanics' Mike Allen is skeptical---skeptical of the effects of HHO gas on fuel economy in a vehicle. He's written about it and due to an overwhelming reader response, he's going against his professional judgement and is taking steps to run a series of tests himself on a 2009 Nissan Maxima. Many are reporting this as Popular Mechanics' attempt to debunk Water4Gas and the various kits that you can buy on the Internet.

I had chance to talk with Mr. Allen today to learn how his testing is going. First, he let me know that this is not his top priority right now (completing print magazines is) so when he gets time, he does push his project forward a bit. We discussed the kit he has installed and his testing methodology. I also learned which kit he chose to install and I even spoke to that manufacturer today to get his take on working with Mike on this.

In the coming days, I will be posting excerpts of my interview with Mike and with this--for now--unnamed manufacturer. Stay tuned.

In the meantime, I'd like to request again to hear from Ford, General Motors, Nissan or any manufacturer out there testing HHO. I'm hearing today that when it comes to testing HHO devices, folks in the aftermarket industry believe that legislation exists which would compel the auto manufacturers to be responsible for testing. Many times, you will hear that tampering with an oxygen sensor is against the law. I'm still researching that but at least one person I spoke to believes that challenging that would involve necessarily the underlying manufacturer of the vehicle to which the aftermarket device was installed. If you are in SEMA and understand this, can you get in touch with me: watercarblog@gmail.com

HHO Gas: What types of proof are offered?

I've been blogging about HHO gas for over 2 yrs now. There are still quite a few aspects of this topic that I do not understand but I think compared to the vast majority of people I am reasonably well informed. My personal hope is that this technology can be scientifically proven beyond a doubt to work and to be the sort of technology that can scale through continual study and testing. But until this is done right by the EPA, we will have to make do with less scientific approaches. I'd like to walk you through an evolution of the types of proof that are being attempted out there.

First, we all know about the consumer testimonial type of evidence. This is probably the most emotional type. The problem with it is it's difficult to compare before to after due to variability of driving conditions and the impact having an HHO device has on the driver in terms of their psychology. Second, a somewhat similar attempt at proof comes from the YouTube or MetaCafe audio/visual genre. Plainly, these attempts want to allow you to experience an engine before/after HHO is injected into the fuel system. It is interesting to see an engine and hear it before/after as hho is injected then remove, then reinjected and the engine noticeably changes as a result. This is certainly a repeatable effort but it lacks the metrics needed to gauge true impact. Thirdly, there are road tests out there. Oftentimes, these come from trucking companies that have drivers driving routes every day. They know their mileage from careful and repeated record keeping. They put a unit on a vehicle and compare before/after. But even these tests might be flawed if the driver knows that a device is on the system---at least that's what critics will say. Fourthly, there is testing that takes place on a dynamometer. Hydrogen Boost has some test results from Purdue on this but I can't find the names of the original researchers on the website. WPTV in Florida ran two tests using a dynamometer and in the first one, the car more than doubled gas mileage but in the second test, it only jumped 10% and the underlying investigator, Amir Abtahi believes the testing was too flawed for the results to be useful. Ultimately, the EPA and it's independent 3rd party labs have a process that allows a device like this to be tested thoroughly. The problem is that no one has stepped up to take the test.

There's a 5th type of proof that is out there which probably annoys me most of all. This is the type of proof that comes from appeals to authorities in the field of mechanics or physics, etc and often consists of citing the 2nd law of thermodynamics. This type of proof is often sought by journalists who are writing a piece on HHO gas. So, the journalist calls up their local Professor of ABC and asks them what they think. I hate it when a Professor says something like this, "If this technology works so great, why isn't Ford or General Motors using it?" This type of analysis of HHO gas is a bit too snarky for me. It goes beyond what is needed which is a simple test on a dynamometer.

My personal opinion is that a good test would consist of 2 identical cars of the same year having their mileage calibrated so that both cars, in various loads, have the same mpg performance. Then you would strap on an HHO generator on one of the cars and run the tests again. To me, this would settle the human aspect of the test as well as teh variability of engine performance to a reasonable degree. If this type of test yielded results, then I think we'd all be in a much better place.

Water4Gas Better Business Bureau

Someone was telling me recently that the Better Business Bureau has a file on 1 Freedom Inc.,makers of Water4Gas ebooks and whose CEO is Ozzie Freedom.  Interesting, I thought, since anything automotive must generate alot of finger pointing and the injured party calling it a scam or hoax. For example, maybe someone installs a kit then has mechanical problems and blames the kit. I thought maybe there would be a few of these types of complaints where the root cause may be questionable.  So I checked out the file and learned that the only thing the BBB is complaining about is that 1 Freedom Inc used the logo apparently somewhere in their materials.   I was unable to verify that claim made by the BBB.  But if you read the file, it is clean.... no complaints.  Remarkable!!!

What I was able to verify is that the BBB is annoying a finance company by listing an improper phone number for 1 Freedom Inc on their website.  If you call the number on the webpage, you will not get the Water4Gas people.  

My personal opinion is that the BBB goes on to unfairly lump HHO Gas technologies and Water4Gas into the pack of devices that the EPA has tested over the years.   I've personally spoken to the program manager of that EPA program.  The single biggest problem I have with it is that it is a passive program---they only test something when a company approaches them and asks for a test.  As a taxpayer, I'd like to see that group of people actively engage with the marketplace and go out and test devices themselves without prompting.  Furthermore, I'd like to see some politicians or someone in DOE get behind this idea to once and for all test these HHO Devices!   There's plenty of consumer sentiment out there that these devices work.  And while I'm at it, I think the BBB should join me in making this call for unprompted testing of a few of the devices on the marketplace.  The test shouldn't say which one works best, but whether or not as a class of devices they work. 

And also, it would be nice if I could finally catch up to Ozzie Freedom for an interview on this blog.  Ozzie, email me:  watercarblog@gmail.com

National Corn Growers Association and HHO Gas Speaker

Lake Land College recently held Agronomy Day. Among the speakers was Mary Holmes from the National Corn Growers Association speaking on the topic of ethanol and the controversy surrounding an increase in food prices that some attribute to crops being grown for fuel.

Interesting to me, however, was the other speaker on the docket at Agronomy Day: Lake Land Technology Division Chairman, Tim Van Dyke who demonstrated an hho gas generator. Van Dyke explained that you could enhance fuel efficiency up to 50 %. I sent a note over to Mr Van Dyke and hope to speak with him soon.

I'd like to try and get more agriculture folks discussing HHO gas in the WaterFueling.com forums. Or reading about Water4Gas.

HHO Gas: Ford, General Motors, Honda, Nissan, Chrysler

I've been hoping to write about major auto manufacturers who are investigating HHO Gas. If you work for one of these organizations and can speak about your research, contact me at watercarblog@gmail.com

Many of you have been reading this blog for some time which is interesting in itself. I'm willing to share information I have with you. Readers of this blog want to know when you will start announcing your own modifcations to take advantage of this technology if in fact that will happen.

From an economic standpoint, I always think about automakers experiencing higher oil prices as impacting sales of SUV or larger vehicles which (and I'm no economist), I have heard are your most profitable lines. Well, if these are your profitable lines and gas prices are making them too expensive to buy, then why not embrace some of these HHO devices out there?

Talk to me: watercarblog@gmail.com

Texas Hydrogen Solutions

Here's another local newspaper article covering a local person who is attempting to save money by using an hho gas generator. This time, this one is made by Texas Hydrogen Solutions. I wonder if this is another venture launched from a reading of Water4Gas.

New Test Results on Hydro 4000 bby WPTV

Jamie Holmes is a reporter for WPTV in West Palm Beach Florida. Back in July, he tested a local company's Hydro 4000 device by having it installed on his TV SUV.  The test results showed the truck was getting 9.4mpg before installation of the hydro 400 and 23.2 after installation. That's over double.   But there was some question about the mechanical condition of the van since the 9.4mpg was below the manufacturer rating.   So a new test was devised with the help of Florida Atlantic University's Dr. Amir Abtahi.  This time around on a 2001 Chevy Tahoe, the test took the vehicle from 11.8 mpg to 13 mpg.   

I think this is a great story whose relevance is that is shows more research is needed.   The makers of the Hydro 4000 say they are going to submit to govt testing soon. That's fantastic if true.  

My opinion is that a test needs to be done that simulates typical driving loads for both city and highway driving.  If end users are reporting more torque, this implies they are probably also accelerating more with these devices which in turn reduces fuel efficiency.  I believe a test should identify to like vehicles of the same make/model.  Calibrate both vehicles using the dynamometer to make sure they both have approx the same MPG.  Then install an hho generator on one unit and rerun the tests. Again, do this for city and highway loads.   

Eventually, this type of scientific analysis is going to be done.  What these universities should be doing is applying to the National Science Foundation for research grants to do the tests correctly.  

WaterFueling.com Update

Launched in May 2008, WaterFueling.com is designed to provide a place where consumers can discuss with one another technologies and kits, learn about the latest HHO developments and find a local hho installer for a kit in the HHO directory. Traffic to the site has tripled each of the 3 months it has been up.  For July, we're now seeing over 3000 visitors per month.  The site your reading now gets about that much traffic every 2 days. 

I've got some updated info on the way regarding some HHO tests that were performed recently. Stay tuned!  The goal is to have that out by the end of the week. 

HHO NEWS GOES CRAZY!!!

For the two years that I've been studying HHO Gas and HHO Generators, I've seen alot of local news stations and local newspapers cover the story.  But in the past 30 days, there seems to have been an E X P L O S I O N of stories about HHO.  Let's go to the list of links.  Outside the US, it's all about "electrolisers" or what we call HHO Generators. Here's an article about a Barbados company, Trans-Tech, installing electrolizers around the Caribbean and South America.   Next, we go to Northern California for a story about Ben Overbeck who started out by reading Water4Gas and then started selling his own kits. It references the Popular Mechanics study being performed on these units now by Mike Allen who's quite frankly a bit of a jackass because he came out early on saying these things dont work but then later admitted it was worth testing so he's building a unit now himself.   Next, we go to South Washington County, MN for yet another local mechanic making a mint out of selling hho generators.  Any time you see a glass jar, it's likely the "local inventor" started with a Water4Gas ebook.  Again, it's a good starter for someone looking to learn more about this technology and unlike a KIT, you can get a refund if the technology is not for you.   Let's close this HHO update with a story done by Corpus Christi's KRISTV covering an RV shop, Colonia Del Rey RV that does the installs.  They should be in the WaterFueling.com directory.